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	<title>Comments on: Classroom Management:  Appropriate Consequences</title>
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		<title>By: elementary music teacher</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-1319</link>
		<dc:creator>elementary music teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-1319</guid>
		<description>It is important for students to be entertained in the sense that they are having fun. I believe that if students are not having fun, they are not learning to their potential</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is important for students to be entertained in the sense that they are having fun. I believe that if students are not having fun, they are not learning to their potential</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 00:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-468</guid>
		<description>Did not mean that you were whiney---I was speaking in generalities.  After 25 years teaching gifted kids (I also have 3 gifted sons--all grown up) I know a lot of parents who have dealt with hundreds of classroom teachers...and I know what works (sometimes) and what works (never).  I have to say I rarely see parents force change for their gifted kids without p***ing off a lot of people. What I have seen work is when the student can speak for themselves and say &quot;Hey, Mrs. Jones...this isn&#039;t working for me&quot;.

He&#039;s a Dr. Philism for you &quot;you should spend 5% thinking about your problem and 95% thinking about solutions.&quot;  I&#039;m sorry you took offense--none was meant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did not mean that you were whiney&#8212;I was speaking in generalities.  After 25 years teaching gifted kids (I also have 3 gifted sons&#8211;all grown up) I know a lot of parents who have dealt with hundreds of classroom teachers&#8230;and I know what works (sometimes) and what works (never).  I have to say I rarely see parents force change for their gifted kids without p***ing off a lot of people. What I have seen work is when the student can speak for themselves and say &#8220;Hey, Mrs. Jones&#8230;this isn&#8217;t working for me&#8221;.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s a Dr. Philism for you &#8220;you should spend 5% thinking about your problem and 95% thinking about solutions.&#8221;  I&#8217;m sorry you took offense&#8211;none was meant.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 21:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-467</guid>
		<description>Nancy said &quot;This could have been a time when you could have explained academic differences and helped her to realize that she needs to be empowered to advocate for herself&quot;

I have explained to her that different kids learn at different rates.  She understands this.

&quot;empowered to advocate for herself&quot;  If the school is willing to teach her, she would not need to be empowered to advocate for herself.  She is a smart kid, she figured that one out on her own.  I am not certain that advocating is effective or  prudent given the district&#039;s attitude towards bright kids (see earlier post).

The school doesn&#039;t teach California history.  Given that she has at least a decent chance of living here as an adult, I think it is important that she learn Cal history.  Since the school doesn&#039;t teach it, she has to learn it at home.

It is also important that she master multiplication facts to automaticity.  This is also something we had to do at home.

I am not certain that her advocating at school would help her and might well hurt her.

By the way, WHY should she advocate for herself?  The school only goes thru 6th grade, she has one year left.  Once she hits 7th grade in middle school, they start to break the kids out into ability levels.  If we use the school as daycare and educate at home, we can probably make it to 7th grade.

I am sorry I come across as whiney.  I prefer to come across as I am, which is angry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nancy said &#8220;This could have been a time when you could have explained academic differences and helped her to realize that she needs to be empowered to advocate for herself&#8221;</p>
<p>I have explained to her that different kids learn at different rates.  She understands this.</p>
<p>&#8220;empowered to advocate for herself&#8221;  If the school is willing to teach her, she would not need to be empowered to advocate for herself.  She is a smart kid, she figured that one out on her own.  I am not certain that advocating is effective or  prudent given the district&#8217;s attitude towards bright kids (see earlier post).</p>
<p>The school doesn&#8217;t teach California history.  Given that she has at least a decent chance of living here as an adult, I think it is important that she learn Cal history.  Since the school doesn&#8217;t teach it, she has to learn it at home.</p>
<p>It is also important that she master multiplication facts to automaticity.  This is also something we had to do at home.</p>
<p>I am not certain that her advocating at school would help her and might well hurt her.</p>
<p>By the way, WHY should she advocate for herself?  The school only goes thru 6th grade, she has one year left.  Once she hits 7th grade in middle school, they start to break the kids out into ability levels.  If we use the school as daycare and educate at home, we can probably make it to 7th grade.</p>
<p>I am sorry I come across as whiney.  I prefer to come across as I am, which is angry.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 19:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-466</guid>
		<description>Teachers used to differentiate instruction all the time--this was what happened in one room school houses, with eight grades.  All kids learned to work independently and all kids&#039; needs could be addressed since there were eight levels of material at any given moment.  As teachers, we should borrow from these teachers&#039; experiences and practices.  The other things that assists in differentiated instruction is technology.  It&#039;s possible to plan interesting experiences in the classroom that challenge and interest all or most of the children.  I recommend to my students (pre-service teachers) that they plan for one really fascinating experience a week and the kids will go a long way on the less interesting stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teachers used to differentiate instruction all the time&#8211;this was what happened in one room school houses, with eight grades.  All kids learned to work independently and all kids&#8217; needs could be addressed since there were eight levels of material at any given moment.  As teachers, we should borrow from these teachers&#8217; experiences and practices.  The other things that assists in differentiated instruction is technology.  It&#8217;s possible to plan interesting experiences in the classroom that challenge and interest all or most of the children.  I recommend to my students (pre-service teachers) that they plan for one really fascinating experience a week and the kids will go a long way on the less interesting stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 14:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-465</guid>
		<description>Tracy, It will not do any good for the parent of a gifted kid to rant and rave and get pissy about the lack of rigor in today&#039;s public school classrooms. I was commenting to what Jane told her child.

&quot;I will help her with it. It is not her fault that the school isn’t interested in teaching, but it is her problem. Not the kindest message for a nine year old, but unfortunately a true one.&quot;

Elementary students have become powerless---maybe they always were but in this time of prescripted reading programs, high stakes test prep bright kids need to step up and advocate for themselves. I think it may be more effective than a whiney &quot;gifted&quot; parent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracy, It will not do any good for the parent of a gifted kid to rant and rave and get pissy about the lack of rigor in today&#8217;s public school classrooms. I was commenting to what Jane told her child.</p>
<p>&#8220;I will help her with it. It is not her fault that the school isn’t interested in teaching, but it is her problem. Not the kindest message for a nine year old, but unfortunately a true one.&#8221;</p>
<p>Elementary students have become powerless&#8212;maybe they always were but in this time of prescripted reading programs, high stakes test prep bright kids need to step up and advocate for themselves. I think it may be more effective than a whiney &#8220;gifted&#8221; parent.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-464</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 09:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-464</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This could have been a time when you could have explained academic differences and helped her to realize that she needs to be empowered to advocate for herself. &lt;/i&gt;

Okay, curiousity killed the cat. What does this mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This could have been a time when you could have explained academic differences and helped her to realize that she needs to be empowered to advocate for herself. </i></p>
<p>Okay, curiousity killed the cat. What does this mean?</p>
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		<title>By: Kara</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 17:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-463</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m in a similar situation to Jane&#039;s. My oldest is getting ready to finish his first year of school--half-day kindergarten. He went in reading at close to a fourth-grade level and having just mastered multiplying double digit numbers. We&#039;ve gone in with an attitude that school is for way more than growing the intellect, and fortunately he loves school, even though the entire year has been beyond remedial for him. We&#039;re helping him to pursue his own interests at home.

But he does come home with papers admonishing him to &quot;follow the directions,&quot; when he was trying to stretch the assignment into something that would challenge him. (But Mom, that&#039;s too easy!) And for his class, this is definitely an issue of classroom management--he&#039;s one of the kids with the yellow and red cards. We&#039;ve been talking about self-control, being part of a team, having respect for the people who need to learn this stuff, etc., but his dad and I are pretty sure a lot of the behavior problems come from boredom.

I want him in a heterogeneous classroom, because I want him in a class where kids learn to deal with differences in abilities (where hopefully, he&#039;ll fit in as just another outlier). But I do think most of the problem-solving for classroom &quot;troublemakers&quot; tends to be geared toward the less motivated or the kids with the IEPs. I just wish there would be more of an acknowledgment among public school educators and administrators that highly gifted kids are special needs kids too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m in a similar situation to Jane&#8217;s. My oldest is getting ready to finish his first year of school&#8211;half-day kindergarten. He went in reading at close to a fourth-grade level and having just mastered multiplying double digit numbers. We&#8217;ve gone in with an attitude that school is for way more than growing the intellect, and fortunately he loves school, even though the entire year has been beyond remedial for him. We&#8217;re helping him to pursue his own interests at home.</p>
<p>But he does come home with papers admonishing him to &#8220;follow the directions,&#8221; when he was trying to stretch the assignment into something that would challenge him. (But Mom, that&#8217;s too easy!) And for his class, this is definitely an issue of classroom management&#8211;he&#8217;s one of the kids with the yellow and red cards. We&#8217;ve been talking about self-control, being part of a team, having respect for the people who need to learn this stuff, etc., but his dad and I are pretty sure a lot of the behavior problems come from boredom.</p>
<p>I want him in a heterogeneous classroom, because I want him in a class where kids learn to deal with differences in abilities (where hopefully, he&#8217;ll fit in as just another outlier). But I do think most of the problem-solving for classroom &#8220;troublemakers&#8221; tends to be geared toward the less motivated or the kids with the IEPs. I just wish there would be more of an acknowledgment among public school educators and administrators that highly gifted kids are special needs kids too.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 03:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-462</guid>
		<description>Your ideas and suggestions are well thought out and tried, I am sure.

Unfortunately, many teachers are not supported by their administration because they can&#039;t hire enough teachers for &#039;electives&#039; like Career and Tech. Ed. (We do tend to be the &#039;bottom feeders&#039; in education) and you get 25 students in a Video Tech class because &quot;there was nowhere else to put them.&quot;

I never thought I&#039;d put a student &#039;out in the hall,&#039; until I had 28 students in a Web Design class (at least 10 who hadn&#039;t chosen it as an elective and their goal was to find ways to distract and annoy).

Rather than waste time writing up referral after referral, putting them in the hall for 10-20 minutes has seemed to work because they get &#039;bored&#039; not being part of the group.

When you have students who truly want to learn in an overcrowded lab situation, you CANNOT be looking over your shoulder as you try to help those who care.  Yes, parent calls do help. . . for a few days.

I have classes that have prerequisites.  When I find students are on my roll that haven&#039;t met them, I am told, &quot;We don&#039;t have anywhere else to put them.&quot;

I certainly feel that the integrity of what I teach is compromised and I have now become a baby sitter rather than a valued professional who teaches valuable skills.

BTW:  I just had a student team win 1st place in SKILLS USA in Web Design.  I don&#039;t know how they learned through all the wasted discipline time in class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your ideas and suggestions are well thought out and tried, I am sure.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many teachers are not supported by their administration because they can&#8217;t hire enough teachers for &#8216;electives&#8217; like Career and Tech. Ed. (We do tend to be the &#8216;bottom feeders&#8217; in education) and you get 25 students in a Video Tech class because &#8220;there was nowhere else to put them.&#8221;</p>
<p>I never thought I&#8217;d put a student &#8216;out in the hall,&#8217; until I had 28 students in a Web Design class (at least 10 who hadn&#8217;t chosen it as an elective and their goal was to find ways to distract and annoy).</p>
<p>Rather than waste time writing up referral after referral, putting them in the hall for 10-20 minutes has seemed to work because they get &#8216;bored&#8217; not being part of the group.</p>
<p>When you have students who truly want to learn in an overcrowded lab situation, you CANNOT be looking over your shoulder as you try to help those who care.  Yes, parent calls do help. . . for a few days.</p>
<p>I have classes that have prerequisites.  When I find students are on my roll that haven&#8217;t met them, I am told, &#8220;We don&#8217;t have anywhere else to put them.&#8221;</p>
<p>I certainly feel that the integrity of what I teach is compromised and I have now become a baby sitter rather than a valued professional who teaches valuable skills.</p>
<p>BTW:  I just had a student team win 1st place in SKILLS USA in Web Design.  I don&#8217;t know how they learned through all the wasted discipline time in class.</p>
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		<title>By: Adso of Melk</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>Adso of Melk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-461</guid>
		<description>Jane, I&#039;m sorry your meeting with the superintendent went that way - I am horrified at the ethical principles she seems to believe in, frankly.  Maybe look in to homeschooling as an option?  Seriously -- I honestly think many parents simply give up trying to achieve the (apparently) impossible in getting an appropriate education for a child whose grade and age don&#039;t match.  It&#039;s very frustrating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, I&#8217;m sorry your meeting with the superintendent went that way &#8211; I am horrified at the ethical principles she seems to believe in, frankly.  Maybe look in to homeschooling as an option?  Seriously &#8212; I honestly think many parents simply give up trying to achieve the (apparently) impossible in getting an appropriate education for a child whose grade and age don&#8217;t match.  It&#8217;s very frustrating.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy</title>
		<link>http://creatinglifelonglearners.com/?p=294&#038;cpage=1#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.needleworkspictures.com/ocr/blog/?p=294#comment-460</guid>
		<description>@Jane,
If your nine year old was mine I wouldn&#039;t have given her such a dire message.  This could have been a time when you could have explained academic differences and helped her to realize that she needs to be empowered to advocate for herself.

As long as you choose to send you child to public school you are going to have to accept that they are going to teach to the middle.  You and your daughter have the responsibility to continue to try to make a difference and not become victims. Each day is a new day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jane,<br />
If your nine year old was mine I wouldn&#8217;t have given her such a dire message.  This could have been a time when you could have explained academic differences and helped her to realize that she needs to be empowered to advocate for herself.</p>
<p>As long as you choose to send you child to public school you are going to have to accept that they are going to teach to the middle.  You and your daughter have the responsibility to continue to try to make a difference and not become victims. Each day is a new day.</p>
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